Grand Slam 3/Grand Slam 3.iso/026/idig48.arj/IDIG48.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1995-03-12 | 122KB

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 08:45 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1836] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> > Don't get carried away now :-)  Cubic using the GUS patches is much
> > better than FM but nowhere comes close to the GUS playing midi. Mostly I
> > think, because of the nasty aliasing that the mixing process adds. CP
> > also makes some errors when playing midi that the GUS does not (The GUS
> > is not perfect but better than CP).
>
> OK, you caught me.  Basically I was making a shameless plug for the
> Turtle Beach Maui.  I really wish it had a larger user base.
> Theoretically if people would write some MOD code for it, it would
> probably blow the GUS away.
>

Unfortunatly, Turtle Beach has always been hush hush about their DSP
code. People have been trying to find out how to program for the
Multisound Classic for over 4 years (before if became a classic :-)
without any luck.

Some background on TB is, I think, in order. A few years ago, the founders
of Turtle Beach sold out to ICS who promptly dropped the Multisound which
uses the Proteus 1/XR synth (768 patches in ROM, onboard RAM where the
patches are loaded for very quick access, etc, etc) in favor of the ICS
Wave Front chipset used on the Monterey. The Wave Front is not even close
to the Multisound in patch quality or MIDI performance. After that they
started expanding their product line to break out of the specialty market
and into the general soundcard market. Their support and Engineering
staff, unfortunatly did not keep up. Poor Engineering/Marketing decisions
were made (such as using the Wave Blaster connector to upload samples),
product was shipped missing mic preamp chips, logjammed support lines etc.

Whtever remains of the Turtle Beach name, I'm sad to say, is due to the
Multisound and it's digital audio section which was carried over
unchanged into the Monterey and other products. If matters continue as
they stand, I have serious doubts that TB will prosper in the long run.
If you need proof of how many dissatisfied customers they have, join the
Multisound mailing list. 99% of the posts are from dissatisfied owners
(the popular name for the company is Turtle Bitch). After about two weeks
of this, I sadly unsubscribed. Yet during the month or so that I was
subscribed, there was not a single complaint about the Multisound
Classic.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 19:15 EET
From: "Cyber Edge of Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1849] Sound Card Update

              Sound Card Wars
             =================
And the Tally stands as:

 Gravis Ultrasound :17
 Creative Labs     :18
 Pro Audio Spectrum:7
 Turtle Beach      :1
 Other (Roland)    :3
Multiple cards:
 SBcompatible + GUS:7
 SB + TB           :1
 PAS16+ATP+GUS     :1
 SB16+WB           :1
 GUS+SMW           :1
 GUS+PAS           :1
 GUS+Roland        :1

Those who've voted, and what they have:

"Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>          GUS
"Rudy Amid" <[e-mail]>                       SB-16
"Hussam Eassa" <[e-mail]>          GUS + SB
"Neil Gardner" [e-mail] SB-16
"Jurassic Mark" <[e-mail]>             GUS
"Joost Baaij" <[e-mail]>              GUS + SMW
"Jesse Ozog <GE>" <[e-mail]>      GUS + PAS
"ZACH HEITLING" <[e-mail]>          SB-16
"DAVE MCCARTER" <[e-mail]> PAS-16
"Jacob Cossairt" <[e-mail]>  PAS-16 + Roland
"Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>      GUS
"Andy Steere" <[e-mail]>       SB-16
"Brandon M. Browning" <[e-mail]>    PAS-16
"Andrew Ferrier" <[e-mail]>  SB-16
"Kris Sturgess" <[e-mail] + SB
"Schitzo" <[e-mail]>             GUS + SB
"Thomas Axelsson" <[e-mail]>              GUS
"Paul Dermody CA2" <[e-mail]>     SB-AWE32
"Kris Buytaert" <[e-mail]>  GUS + SB
"Mike Freymond" <[e-mail]>     PAS
"Cuthalion / Sliced Bread" <[e-mail]> GUS
"Bryce Penberthy" <[e-mail]>   GUS
"Jimmy Wan" <[e-mail]>                    SB + TB Maui
"JUAN ANTONIO ARTAL LOZANO" <[e-mail]
"STIMPY" <[e-mail]>                  SB-16
"Viktor F." <[e-mail]>                  GUS
"Cyber Edge of Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]-16
"Jensi" <[e-mail]>               PAS-16+ATP+GUS
"Nathan W Cromer" <[e-mail]>          SB-16
"Bryce Penberthy" <[e-mail]>   GUS
"Marko Haapam{ki" <[e-mail]>     GUS MAX
<[e-mail]>                           SB-16ASP+WB
"Marko Domanovic" <[e-mail]>       GUS-MAX
"Amelia Tovar (UNIMET)" <[e-mail]>      SB-AWE32
<[e-mail]>                          GUSMAX+SB16
"Remko Connor" <[e-mail]>          PAS-16
(Some address were to long, I had to cut off a bit.)


If you don't see yourself up there, please send a mail to:
"Cyber Edge of Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
with your vote.




--
+..................+............................+....................+
|..Upper...Canada..|......Paul..Kalupnieks......|.."Look.on.the......|
|......College.....|[e-mail]...|...bright.side,is...|
|...Toronto,.Ont...|.Cyber.Edge.of.Syber.Dreams.|...suicide".........|
|..................|..........-1995-............|............-Cobain.|


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 19:49 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1851] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:

> I would like to personally thank the person who first brought up the
> Midas Module player in this conferance.

No problem.  I only wish I could reap the benefits of it myself.  I only
have an SB16.  If you could, do me a HUGE favor and write to the author
and request he make a version for the Turtle Beach Maui.  In his docs, he
mentioned a Maui version, and an AWE-32 version might be in the making,
but he made no definite statement.  I would really appreciate it if you
guys could help me accomplish this.  Other wise I might get stuck making
my own module player, which I might plan on doing anyway, but it may take
me about 5 years.


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 19:28 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1850] Re: MIDI? Why?

I would have replied email, but I figured more than one person would like
to hear what I have to say.

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> Unfortunatly, Turtle Beach has always been hush hush about their DSP
> code. People have been trying to find out how to program for the
> Multisound Classic for over 4 years (before if became a classic :-)
> without any luck.

Well, I don't know about before, but I recently found a whole bunch of
FAQ's from Brandon Higa's FTP site for the Maui.  It had stuff about
SYSEX commands, the WaveFront Gatekeeper, and even some source code.
Perhaps they have mended their ways, since you last checked up on them.

I actually happen to be on the Multisound Mailing list, and I personally
hate it.  Most of the posts are of no interest to me.  Most of the
problems are related to the fact that the Tropez was shipped with the
Tahiti's setup program(therefore it doesn't work), and some of them came
without Mic preamps.  I haven't really heard anything else that was bad.
As far as the MIDI header, I think that was a design decision to make the
Rio(the MIDI daughterboard identical to the one used in the Monterey)
available for use on the Sound Blaster family of cards.  I am not
defending it, since it is an extremely poor decision, but I can sort of
see where they are coming from.  My experiences have always been
positive.  They are the only company I have ever had, that sent me a free
software upgrade through the mail.  Notice I say upgrade and not bugfix.
They actually sent me two disks.  I was perfectly happy with it before,
but I am even more happy now.  And as far as I know, the Turtle Beach
family still boasts some of the highest Signal to Noise ratio's in the
industry.  Their output is crystal clear.  With my 80 watts/ch receiver
cranked up all the way and plugged into the Maui, I hear no noise other
than the minimal noise, the receiver adds itself.


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 20:05 EET
From: niels <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1852] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!

Rot toch op zeikstraal!
On Tue, 7 Mar 95 17:48 EET [e-mail] wrote:

> From: [e-mail]> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 95 17:48 EET
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1786] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
>
> >I have a sb16 and I think it uses alot memory (config.sys:ctsb16/ctmm etc...)
> >Also I have a cd-rom wich uses another 56kb conventional memory
> >My mouse driver also uses 17kb memory
> >together with dos..Not much memory is left
> >I already load as much high as I can !
> >Are there any lines from the config.sys and autoexec.bat that are not
> important at
> >all??!!
> >
> >This discription is a little vague but maybe out here on the internet there is
> >someone who can help me.........
> >
> >Niels van der Beek
> >[e-mail]
>
> Now why the hell are you asking this on INERTIA-TALK ?
> There's more to the net than just this list you know! :)
>
> Joost.




-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 10:26 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1838] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Mon, 6 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 11:58 EET
> From: Jens Puchert <[e-mail]>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1730] Re: MIDI? Why?
>
> In message <[e-mail]> you
> write:
>
> >The way I see it, MIDI was never meant for the Personal Computer.  MIDI
> >stands for Musical Instruments Digital Interface.  Where's the Musical
> >instrument?  After playing with a true MIDI Synthesizer, even my GUS MAX
> >diminishes is stature ...
>
> Don't forget that MIDI is not
> just the synth.  A MIDI setup always comprises three components,
> controller, sequencer, and synthesizer.  As a sequencer you can't beat
> the PC today.  As a synthesizer you have at least a lot of decent
> options.  As a controller, quite frankly, it's not suitable, but that
> can be easily expanded with an external keyboard.  I say PC and MIDI
> is a great combination.  Whether everybody fully uses this great
> potential is an entirely different story.
>
> >[e-mail]

> Jensi

A professional setup often does include a PC as the sequencer, because
the software is easier to change and improve on, but the sound is rarelyy
generated from a soundcard with a mere 512K of sample area.  I have seen
some pretty fancy MIDI setups when I was in high school, like CD-ROM
sampling, and sound processsing that doesn't even involve a PC.  The
electronics used in professional setups are designed with but one purpose
in mind.  The PC?  All I remember it doing is storing the data and
sequencing, which is still pretty easy to do with the keyboard.

[e-mail]
"Programmers get overlaid!"


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 21:45 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1854] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Then what for Christ's sake is the average?

About an SBPro. Among the people I know anyway.

> Where do you live?  SB2 is not even sold here anymore.

England. Where's here? The Internet's worldwide, remember?

> Jensi
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ
ENGLAND.

Personal Email: [e-mail]
AJF Software Email
        Info: [e-mail]
        Bugs etc: [e-mail]
        Misc: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 21:33 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1853] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950307134957.13671G-100000@[141.211.7.73]> [e-mail] writes:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
> > Yeah, and how many are supported in native mode. Come to think of it, how many
> > even have a native mode?
>
> Duh, there is no MIDI native mode.  That's the whole point.  The GM
> standard was deigned so that poeple of all different kinds of MIDI
> hardware could enjoy the same MIDI files, without the instruments being
> mapped differently.  This makes the need for a native mode, unnecessary
> for EVERY SINGLE card.
>
The soundcard's native mode. Not a MIDI mode.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ
ENGLAND.

Personal Email: [e-mail]
AJF Software Email
        Info: [e-mail]
        Bugs etc: [e-mail]
        Misc: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 21:51 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1855] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950307140240.13671M-100000@[141.211.7.73]> [e-mail] writes:
> I tried out the GUS patches on my SB16 and I have to say that I hope the
> GUS's MIDI sounds better than that by a lot.  My Maui totally puts the
> SB16 with GUS patches to shame.  It sounds so much better, it is not even
> funny.  And to think, some people don't even have WaveTable, and I
> consider my Maui to be substandard quality now(compared to say a sound
> module).
Okey-doke. But how do these patches work and where to they come from? I beleive
you, but don't know how to perform the same operation myself.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ
ENGLAND.

Personal Email: [e-mail]
AJF Software Email
        Info: [e-mail]
        Bugs etc: [e-mail]
        Misc: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 15:15 EET
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1843] RE: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!

>Questions, comments and constructive flames welcome.

What has loadhi or installhi has to do with inertia???

Joost.


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 11:58 EET
From: Andrew Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1840] Andrew Ferrier

> On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
>
[global text cut]

Has anyone invented a filter to ignore this guys annoying messages.

Andy
--
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|Andrew Hall   E-Mail  [e-mail]                           |
\___________________________________________________________________________/


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 22:15 EET
From: Schitzo <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1857] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!



On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Schitzo wrote:
>
> > I've been wondering what those stupid tsr's are for but
> > since my card seems to work without it i've never bothered to find out.
> > but then again i mainly use my GUS and the sb16 as a backup.
> >
>
> That's a setup I would love to have with my GUS MAX
>

then why don't you??? :)  an sb16 only goes for $100 or so now (and i see
you are a canadian also).  they should be even cheaper than that if you
go for the value edition(no cdrom interface, no asp slot) or oem versions
(mine was a sb16mcd oem - not that i needed the mcd or the asp slot, it just
came with it at $100).  anyway i was debating if i should get rid of the
GUS and get the MAX but i decided i didn't need the 16bit recording or
the cd interface so i didn't, now i have both AND i have full sound bastard
compatibility and TWO cards instead of one.  thing is, now i'm debating
if i should trade my sb16 for a sbpro my friend has and get $20-30 from
it.  i really don't need 16bit AND CD interface ... whatcha people think?


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 22:43 EET
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1858]  Re: MIDI? Why?

Hello All,

    I have a question maybe someone could help me with...
I just recently purchased a SoundBlaster AWE-32 to replace my
old SB-PRO... I am using several MOD players out there... Can
someone tell me what the best MOD player is out there for the
SoundBlaster AWE-32? I hear all of this bickering back and forth
about the GUS and the SoundBlaster... I mean lets face it, they
are TWO DIFFERENT CARDS made by TWO DIFFERENT manufacturers! So
naturally they would have their differences... Anyway, I was just
wondering about what the best player is right now... I currently
am using I-Play 1.20 and I found a MOD player called AWEmod and
that has major bugs... It was supposed to have directly supported
the AWE's Advanced Wave Effects generator but it doesn't work
so well... Anyway, could anyone please give me some feedback?
Thanks...

Colin Woods
Stuart, Florida
InterNet E-Mail: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 22:03 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1856] Re: AWE waveblaster....

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> I have an MV Korg on an AWE-32 and I helped a friend set up an SCD-10 on a
> SB-16. The SCD-10 now sells for about $US120 the Korg for $US140. Both
> work very well but I personally prefer the sound of the Korg.
> Installation was totally painless in both cases. The results are more
> impressive when upgrading a SB-16 than an AWE-32 since the AWE-32 has
> decent wavetable midi to start with. But with the AWE-32 you end up with a
> good 64 voice (60 with SCD-10) polyphony and 32 midi track capability that
> are all wave table. With the SB-16/DB you get 32 voice (28 for SCD-10)
> wavetable and 32 voice FM.

How does the SCD-10 compare with the SCD-15?  I probably won't go
Daughterboard anyway, but I'm looking to either upgrade my Maui or
replace it with something a little better.


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:08 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1863] Re: S3m and GUS Patches

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Scream Tracker v3.21 is out.
>
> --
> Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
> "There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager
I have 3.2. What are the ad/disadvantages of 3.21 and do you know an ftp site
for it?
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ
ENGLAND.

Personal Email: [e-mail]
AJF Software Email
        Info: [e-mail]
        Bugs etc: [e-mail]
        Misc: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:32 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1867] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Tue, 7 Mar 95 21:23 EET,
Jimmy Wan  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I tried out the GUS patches on my SB16 and I have to say that I hope the
>GUS's MIDI sounds better than that by a lot.  My Maui totally puts the
>SB16 with GUS patches to shame.  It sounds so much better, it is not even

I got my Audiotrix pro demo CD yesterday and I must say I wasn't all that
impressed with the MIDI, sure it sounded nice, but only marginally better
than my GUS.  I like my MOD collection way better than my MIDI collection
anyways.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 16:02 EET
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1844] Re: SB vs. GUS

>For Christ's sake, is this "my soundcard is better than your soundcard" never
>gonna end?  ........

No!
It will never end!

>.....Everybody knows the adventages and disadventages of both, the GUS
>and the AWE, so why don't you just trust everybody to be adult enough to make
>the best decision for themselves?.......

I have had DOZENS of questions asked to me: which is a better card.
Realise that we (on this list, and internet-folks in general) are WAY better
educated in computer-stuff than other people.
We know about soundcards (and other cards, for the matter) but we're just
the small 5% or so. There's just a lot of us worldwide.
And the other 95% (or so) can't make a decision for themselves 'cos they
think: "soundcards that make music are soundblasters".
I even know a guy that claimed he had a soundblaster. the only thing he had
was audio-out from his cd-rom.

>>I have an opl-4 card right here, and that one is over a year old.
>>(It sounds perfect btw, it has an mpu-401 and everything, and yes, I also am
>>enjoying wavetable quality music, thank you).
>
>Which card is that?  AudioTrix Pro?......

Soundman Wave. Boy it sounds good!

Joost.


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 16:30 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1847] MIDI and Trackers

Hi,
    Sorry to go off topic of flaming sound cards and users, but ....
Does anyone know if there exists a MOD (or such) composer that can read
in MIDI files to use as the notes?  And where might I find such a program?
Thanks alot.

______________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                  [e-mail]
"Live Long and Render"

Winner of `February Internation PoV Competition' with my image,
"JMWarmUp.Jpg", at ftp.povray.org/pub/competition/past_winners.

Questions, comments and constructive flames welcome.
---------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:34 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1868] Re: Midas

On Tue, 7 Mar 95 21:02 EET,
Jimmy Wan  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>> I've been considering joining the group.  How much mail does it get a day
>> and what is the quality of the posts (song quality etc)
>I thought you were part of it already?  =)  Anyway, I would say 10-40
>posts.  Closer to the 10 side.

Nope, I'll set up my newsreader to download the group today.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 00:39 EET
From: "Jurassic Mark" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1871] Re: Cubic Player v0.96

> Date:          Wed, 8 Mar 95 07:21 EET
> Reply-to:      [e-mail]
> From:          "Jesse Ozog <[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]>
> To:            Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
> Subject:       [INERTIA-TALK:1827] Cubic Player v0.96

> I saw a post in alt.comp.demos about the newest version of cubic player
> being out (on Hornet i belive), and I was wondering if anyone on the list
> has seen it yet, and if So...how is it?

     Yes, I got it.  It supports ZIP and ARJ (so-so) files!!!  My
wish has come true!!!


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 01:51 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1872] Re: AWE waveblaster....



On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> How does the SCD-10 compare with the SCD-15?  I probably won't go
> Daughterboard anyway, but I'm looking to either upgrade my Maui or
> replace it with something a little better.
>

I have no personal experience with the SCD-15. I am told that the SCD-10
is the general midi subset (128 patches) of the SCD-15 which is GM/GS
(354 patches). The common GM patches are identical.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 02:32 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1873] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!


On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> > On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:
> >
> > > These TSRs are needed to run the DOS mixer and the midi and wave DOS
> > > utilities that come with the SB-16. If you get the latest drivers from CL,
> > > you get a new DOS mixer that doesn't need them. The latest drivers are at
> > > ftp.creaf.com. Look for SB16UP.EXE for the SB-16 and AWEUP.EXE for the
> > > AWE-32. These are self extracting zip files.
> >
> > hmmm ... the mixer.exe that comes with my sb16 also works perfectly fine
> > without those tsr's.  also play (or whatever it is called) also works to
> > play midi files without those tsr's ... i guess i don't need those tsr's
> > then.  but i'll go and pick up that update anyway just in case.
>
> This info. is certainly interesting. I have to admit I've never tried removing
> both the drivers, because I assumed the low-level one was necessary. Does
> Windows 3.1 need either driver, providing you have the Windows drivers
> installed? How big are these updates?
> I think, by the way, when you say also play, you mean the
> DOS PLAY program that comes with the SB-16. Maybe. :-)

Windows does not need them at all. And you are right, I did mean the play
progs that come with the SB-16. I think SB16UP.EXE is around 700K. It is
kinda slick. It goes and IDs your particular flavor of SB-16 and
automatically replaces both the DOS and Windows stuff with the appropriate
files/drivers.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 02:44 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1874] Re: AWE waveblaster....

In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950307163346.29439A-100000@earth> you write:

>On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Lewis A J wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi all....
>>
>> Has anyone had any experience putting a roland scd10 or other daughter board
>> on an awe32... Any good/bad experiences,.... what's the best value for money
>?
>>
>>
>
>I have an MV Korg on an AWE-32 and I helped a friend set up an SCD-10 on a
>SB-16. The SCD-10 now sells for about $US120 the Korg for $US140. Both
>work very well but I personally prefer the sound of the Korg.
>Installation was totally painless in both cases. The results are more
>impressive when upgrading a SB-16 than an AWE-32 since the AWE-32 has
>decent wavetable midi to start with. But with the AWE-32 you end up with a
>good 64 voice (60 with SCD-10) polyphony and 32 midi track capability that
>are all wave table. With the SB-16/DB you get 32 voice (28 for SCD-10)
>wavetable and 32 voice FM.

20 voice FM (OPL3)

>--
>========================
>Sam
>[e-mail]
>========================

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 03:14 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1875] Re: GUS vs SB

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Mar 95 07:25 EET,
> Andrew Ferrier  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >It? That's rather nasty! Unless the person to which you are referring is a
> >computer, which I find unlikely. I suspect that you used this terminology
> >because you didn't know whether the person was a man or woman? Am I correct?
>
> Yes.  What is "it", a he or a she?
>
> >If they don't want to read this list, they don't have to. Although it could
> >be helpful in some instances for settling disputes etc.
>
> It seems strange to make a list then not even read it.

    I wouldn't blame him, what with the quality of posts lately.
Please, guys, keep the flaming to a minimum.  We don't care who is an
imbecile, don't tell us all.  A "I believe you are wrong" is one thing,
but I haven't seen much of that without a good deal of personal attacks
added on.



-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 03:20 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1876] Re: MIDI? Why?

> positive.  They are the only company I have ever had, that sent me a free
> software upgrade through the mail.  Notice I say upgrade and not bugfix.
> They actually sent me two disks.  I was perfectly happy with it before,

    Huh.  Advanced Gravis did the same thing to it's early GUS
owners.  (A whopping 6 disks.  Very impressive indeed.)


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 03:22 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1877] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....


On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:
>
> On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
>
> > I would like to personally thank the person who first brought up the
> > Midas Module player in this conferance.
>
> No problem.  I only wish I could reap the benefits of it myself.  I only
> have an SB16.  If you could, do me a HUGE favor and write to the author
> and request he make a version for the Turtle Beach Maui.  In his docs, he
> mentioned a Maui version, and an AWE-32 version might be in the making,
> but he made no definite statement.  I would really appreciate it if you
> guys could help me accomplish this.  Other wise I might get stuck making
> my own module player, which I might plan on doing anyway, but it may take
> me about 5 years.
>

Does Turtle Beach Maui have something similar to the GF1, or does it rely
on the MIDI hardware to do mixing?  (Just Curious)

[e-mail]
"Programmers get overlaid!"


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 03:48 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1878] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Schitzo wrote:

>
> On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Schitzo wrote:
> >
> > > I've been wondering what those stupid tsr's are for but
> > > since my card seems to work without it i've never bothered to find out.
> > > but then again i mainly use my GUS and the sb16 as a backup.
> > >
> >
> > That's a setup I would love to have with my GUS MAX
> >
>
> then why don't you??? :)  an sb16 only goes for $100 or so now (and i see
> you are a canadian also).  they should be even cheaper than that if you
> go for the value edition(no cdrom interface, no asp slot) or oem versions
> (mine was a sb16mcd oem - not that i needed the mcd or the asp slot, it just
> came with it at $100).  anyway i was debating if i should get rid of the
> GUS and get the MAX but i decided i didn't need the 16bit recording or
> the cd interface so i didn't, now i have both AND i have full sound bastard
> compatibility and TWO cards instead of one.  thing is, now i'm debating
> if i should trade my sb16 for a sbpro my friend has and get $20-30 from
> it.  i really don't need 16bit AND CD interface ... whatcha people think?
>

Problem :
  I'm going to university right now, and therefore, I have no money
left.  I can't even afford to buy a single speed CD, let alone thinking
about a second sond card and a mixer so I can hook it to my speakers with
the GUS-MAX.  Right now, the only advantages to gettting both is better
software support and nice playing of Digial Sound effects... and I'm
notnotnotnotnotnotnot going to sell my GUS for that.

Now if I could afford a Roland Sound Canvas...

[e-mail]
"Programmers get overlaid!"


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 04:24 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1879] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

In message <[e-mail]> you w
rite:

>
>On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
>>
>> > I would like to personally thank the person who first brought up the
>> > Midas Module player in this conferance.
>>
>> No problem.  I only wish I could reap the benefits of it myself.  I only
>> have an SB16.  If you could, do me a HUGE favor and write to the author
>> and request he make a version for the Turtle Beach Maui.  In his docs, he
>> mentioned a Maui version, and an AWE-32 version might be in the making,
>> but he made no definite statement.  I would really appreciate it if you
>> guys could help me accomplish this.  Other wise I might get stuck making
>> my own module player, which I might plan on doing anyway, but it may take
>> me about 5 years.
>>
>
>Does Turtle Beach Maui have something similar to the GF1, or does it rely
>on the MIDI hardware to do mixing?  (Just Curious)

The GF1    is a wavetable synthesizer chip and the Maui uses a wavetable
synthesizer chip (WaveFront).  What's the big difference?  Conceptually
at least there is none.

>[e-mail]
>"Programmers get overlaid!"

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 04:58 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1880] Re: MIDI? Why?


On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:
>
> > Unfortunatly, Turtle Beach has always been hush hush about their DSP
> > code. People have been trying to find out how to program for the
> > Multisound Classic for over 4 years (before if became a classic :-)
> > without any luck.
>
> Well, I don't know about before, but I recently found a whole bunch of
> FAQ's from Brandon Higa's FTP site for the Maui.  It had stuff about
> SYSEX commands, the WaveFront Gatekeeper, and even some source code.

SYSEX commands are pretty general and don't tell you how to talk to the
card at the register level. I'm not familiar with the WaveFront
Gatekeeper. I'm not a programmer. I do know, however that you need basic
info (real low level) to talk to a DSP/sound card. Do you know if any of
the info there is adequate to write specific code native to the Maui?

> Perhaps they have mended their ways, since you last checked up on them.

I hope so but I doubt it. One guy posted a message to the sysop of the TB
BBS asking about OS/2 drivers for the Multisound. The answer was a
resounding no. The answer was that they support Windows (now and in the
future) because it is on 50 million desktops while OS/2 is only on 5
million. When asked at least for programming info so that others may take
a stab at it. The answer was deafening silence.

> I actually happen to be on the Multisound Mailing list, and I personally
> hate it.  Most of the posts are of no interest to me.  Most of the
> problems are related to the fact that the Tropez was shipped with the
> Tahiti's setup program(therefore it doesn't work), and some of them came
> without Mic preamps.  I haven't really heard anything else that was bad.

Don't minimize the problems that TB has. At the risk of being flamed for
wasting bandwidth, let me tell you of one of my experiences. About six
months ago I got interested in the then new Monte Carlo. I read the specs
and they looked decent on paper. It used the Crystal CS4231 CODEC, was WSS
and SBP compatible and had software wavetable midi for a good price. I
bought it. I ran the install program which asked me if I wanted DOS or
DOS/Windows. I answered both DOS and windows.

The install program went through the first disk (out of five I believe).
It then exited saying the install was complete. I thought that was weird.
I started Windows, and sure enough it came up without any evidence that
any drivers/apps etc. were installed. Hmmm. I tried to run the setup
program on disk 1 and got a message that there were last minute changes
and to run install from DOS!

By sheer coincidence I was looking through disk 1 and found a file called
DONTUSE.EXE. So I ran it from Windows and the driver setup started.

The story is a long one so I won't go into too much detail other than to
say that none of the DOS drivers wouldn't work with anything other than
MSDOS 6.22. Not with 6.0 or 6.1 or IBMDOS 6.3 which is what I like to use.

The frequency response was severely rolled off below about 200 Hz. I went
through the board and found that they had done some last minute cost
reductions and eliminated several buffer chips and replaced some of the
coupling caps with way undersized ones. I replaced the caps (some 10 or so
of them ) with larger ones. The Bass came right up. I called TB and tried
to tell them of the deficiencies with the hardware and software.  The
support techs were nice enough but really had no interest in making use of
my help. Again, if you go to the TB BBS you will see complaints about the
things that I found.

> As far as the MIDI header, I think that was a design decision to make the
> Rio(the MIDI daughterboard identical to the one used in the Monterey)
> available for use on the Sound Blaster family of cards.  I am not
> defending it, since it is an extremely poor decision, but I can sort of
> see where they are coming from.

I wish you would clue me in. They stopped making the Multisound Classic,
the best darn Windows sound card ever created by man and replaced it with
the Monterey.  The Monterey compared to a Multisound is like comparing an
Audi to a Mercedes. Not even in the same class.

> ..........................My experiences have always been
> positive.  They are the only company I have ever had, that sent me a free
> software upgrade through the mail.  Notice I say upgrade and not bugfix.
> They actually sent me two disks.  I was perfectly happy with it before,
> but I am even more happy now.  And as far as I know, the Turtle Beach
> family still boasts some of the highest Signal to Noise ratio's in the
> industry.  Their output is crystal clear.  With my 80 watts/ch receiver
> cranked up all the way and plugged into the Maui, I hear no noise other
> than the minimal noise, the receiver adds itself.

The people at TB ar good people who try to be helpful. But they are
overloaded and are suffering from fundamentally poor business and
marketing decisions.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 05:45 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1881] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!

Hi,
    Sorry about the subject message, but I just felt like typing reply
rather than all of the address.  Anyways

Does anyone know how much a Roland Sound Canvas goes for?  This may not
be the place to discuss this, and I'll leave it at this if anyone has any
problems with the message.  Sorry

______________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                  [e-mail]
"Live Long and Render"

Winner of `February Internation PoV Competition' with my image,
"JMWarmUp.Jpg", at ftp.povray.org/pub/competition/past_winners.

Questions, comments and constructive flames welcome.
---------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 06:15 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1882] Inertia Player v2.+

Hi,
I have just had some ideas for the next version of Inertia Play,
though is this the place to post them?  If anyone knows of a
better address then tell me.  Anyways, here goes. . .

1.   Read in MIDI files and play them back.  However, as MIDI
     files are capable of having an instrument play a chord of
     multiple notes, MODs are not.  Here's where my idea comes
     in.  At initial load of the MIDI file check for any chord
     that occurs.  If one is found then take whichever instrument
     should be used and pre-mix a single sample for that specific
     chord.  Then, store that chord in memory and use it whenever
     the chord occurs.  This could also be used for several
     different chords, provided they were basically the same
     except translated up or down the clef.  This would take more
     memory than traditional, but would sound really impressive.
     With this one could easily simulate what would have required
     a multitude of tracks with MODs on a single channel.
     Whatcha think?
2.   Have a option to output the audio, rather than to the audio
     card, but to a WAV or VOC on the hard drive.  Then Inertia
     Player could take it's own sweet time and output the file as
     it should sound.  With full stereo panning, 44.1 Khz,
     stereo, 256x oversampling, full Fourier emphasis, reverb(?),
     and the such.  I think this would be very feasible and
     useful.
Well, there you go.  What do you think?  Did it make sense? (It's
late and I'm falling asleep :)

______________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                  [e-mail]
"Live Long and Render"

Winner of `February Internation PoV Competition' with my image,
"JMWarmUp.Jpg", at ftp.povray.org/pub/competition/past_winners.

Questions, comments and constructive flames welcome.
---------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 07:57 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1883] Scream Tracker

Scream Tracker supports the GUS, the SBPro and the SB.  I don't know
about SB-compat, but SB16 works fine in SBPro mode, albeit a little noisy
with 8-bit mixing and 22kHz output in stereo.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 09:49 EET
From: Arsi Rantala <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1888] Re: Inertia Player v2.+

Where did you find that Inertia Player version V2.+ ? I'd like to have
that too...

***************************************************************
* Arsi Rantala            E-mail:[e-mail]           *
* Keisarinmajantie 4 F 12                                     *
* 48230  KOTKA            http://www.kotakk.fi/~a92sarra/alku *
***************************************************************


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:03 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1860] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!

In message <Pine.SOL.3.90.950308105924.16857A-100000@oberon> [e-mail] writes:
>
>
> On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Schitzo wrote:
> > >
> > > it does??? i've removed BOTH tsr's from my config.sys and my sb16 works
> > > perfectly fine.  i've been wondering what those stupid tsr's are for but
> > > since my card seems to work without it i've never bothered to find out.
> > > but then again i mainly use my GUS and the sb16 as a backup.
> > >
> >
> > These TSRs are needed to run the DOS mixer and the midi and wave DOS
> > utilities that come with the SB-16. If you get the latest drivers from CL,
> > you get a new DOS mixer that doesn't need them. The latest drivers are at
> > ftp.creaf.com. Look for SB16UP.EXE for the SB-16 and AWEUP.EXE for the
> > AWE-32. These are self extracting zip files.
>
> hmmm ... the mixer.exe that comes with my sb16 also works perfectly fine
> without those tsr's.  also play (or whatever it is called) also works to
> play midi files without those tsr's ... i guess i don't need those tsr's
> then.  but i'll go and pick up that update anyway just in case.

This info. is certainly interesting. I have to admit I've never tried removing
both the drivers, because I assumed the low-level one was necessary. Does
Windows 3.1 need either driver, providing you have the Windows drivers
installed? How big are these updates?
I think, by the way, when you say also play, you mean the
DOS PLAY program that comes with the SB-16. Maybe. :-)
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ
ENGLAND.

Personal Email: [e-mail]
AJF Software Email
        Info: [e-mail]
        Bugs etc: [e-mail]
        Misc: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:19 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1866] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> you w
rite:

>On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:
>
>> > MPEG Video was designed for computers and other similar equipment.
>> > MIDI was NOT designed for computers. Please do not think that just because
> my
>> > soundcard plays poor quality sound, I am basing my whole argument upon thi
>s.
>> > However, I have been persuaded and as I have said SEVERAL TIMES, I agree t
>hat
>> > both MODs and MIDI have their place, although I will be sticking to MODs o
>ut
>> > of personal preference. Perhaps you should question 'industry standard'
>> > and wonder what industry you are talking about.
>>
>> Cathode Ray Tubes were not originally designed for computers.  Keyboards
>> were not originally designed for computers.  What is your point?
>>
>
>I know I'm missing your point, but didn't the CRT start out as some kind
>of memory device?

No, as an amplifier.  You know, those old radios with a big coil and a CRT
on top, anyways...  Memory is a much more recent invention.  In the 40's
I believe they started building huge computers with thousands of CRT's,
some of them were indeed used as memory cells.  That's doesn't look very
friendly on your power bill though.  Oh well...

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:06 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1862] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950307135630.13671I-100000@[141.211.7.73]> [e-mail] writes:
> The SB16 DOES NOT PLAY SAMPLES!  Unless you are using Cubic Player, there
> are no samples involved!  Get it through your thick skull.  And for the
> last time, MIDI was not designed just for the base-bones computer with a
> soundcard people.  It was designed for everyone, professional musicians
> included.

Obviously I don't understand. How does the SB family play MIDI if it doesn't
store samples anywhere? (RAM, ROM, Hard Disk etc.) By the way, by samples I
meant the actual sound, not the specific conotations that sample obviously
has. :-)

TTFN,
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ
ENGLAND.

Personal Email: [e-mail]
AJF Software Email
        Info: [e-mail]
        Bugs etc: [e-mail]
        Misc: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:01 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1859] Re: Location of Inertia

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950307133802.13671B-100000@[141.211.7.73]> [e-mail] writes:
> I've just about had enough of you.  Most of your posts are made from a
> totally biased point of view, without a reasonable argument.  Talk about
> insulting, why don't we talk about how you insulted the entire population
> of Gravis Ultrasound owners.  I recall you saying, that the majority of
> demo scene followers are rich and have enough money for a GUS.  What are
> you trying to imply?  That anyone who owns a GUS is a rich snob?  Get a
> clue.  You try to shoot down the entire MIDI standard, based upon your
> minimal experience and peon brain.  Get a clue.  This list used to be a
> great place where people could ask good questions, and receive insightful
> answers.  Now it is basically a place for everyone to just argue with
> you.  We were a LOT better off when you were not on this list.  I
> apologize to everyone else on this list, but I think his remarks are
> blatantly unnecessary.  Besides, if you take a second to think, you will
> realize that my statement was referring to the fact that almost all
> professors have Doctoral degrees(to the best of my knowledge).
> Therefore, it is in my opinion that Prof.  imlies Dr. and therefore is
> unnecessary.  But of course you couldn't have figured that out yourself.

I don't know who is writing these messages, but it seems to be the same
person every time. All I can say is that I'm sorry if I'm upsetting you,
but I'm just letting my opinions be known, like everyone else on this list.
If they don't agree with your opinions, well I'm sorry, but that's life.
However, perhaps I am being a bit forceful, and, if so, I apologise to everyone
who thinks this. I feel sorry I ever started this whole thing about
MIDI vs. MOD now. Please don't put any more messages up about this unless
necessary, because it obviously causes undue tension.
        And please don't think that I think GUS owners are rich snobs. I
obviously have a rather one-sided view of people who like demos. A GUS is a good
soundcard, and those who have the money to afford it (I thought people who
like demos, but obviously I am wrong) should buy it.
You may have noticed that the GUS appears to be winning in the tally, however.
An it may be your opinion that Prof. is unnecessary, and indeed I have opinions
about what other people call themselves, but it is up to them to decide. If the
person wants to add all their qualifications every time they add their name, it
is up to them.
        Aren't everyone's opinions from a biased point of view? Please don't
claim that you are totally impartial, because you're not. Everyone has their
own biases built in, maybe not deliberately, but they do.
        I'm sorry to anyone I annoyed, and I'll try to not put across my
opinions too forcefully in future.

:-)
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ
ENGLAND.

Personal Email: [e-mail]
AJF Software Email
        Info: [e-mail]
        Bugs etc: [e-mail]
        Misc: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:35 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1869] Re: Midas

On Tue, 7 Mar 95 23:08 EET,
Andrew Ferrier  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>> I've been considering joining the group.  How much mail does it get a day
>> and what is the quality of the posts (song quality etc)
>Oh Dear! Song quality of the posts? You obviously don't know what these lists
>are for (or at least how they are used). I will give a non-official version:

ARGH!  I'm starting to agree that you should be removed from the list!  Did
you even read the text I quoted?!?  Here is the message I sent:

being quote---------------------------------------------------------------

>>I still think the file management in M4W is very appealing. I usually
>>download everything on a.b.s.mods. To sort through that while playing
>>them is a lot more effective than listening to a tune, making a note
>>whether to archive it or keep it on the hard disk and then go on to the
>>next one.

> I've been considering joining the group.  How much mail does it get a day
> and what is the quality of the posts (song quality etc)

end quote-----------------------------------------------------------------

Can't you see I was talking about a.b.s.mods?  And your 18 line signature
is very annoying mister.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:05 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1861] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> OK, you caught me.  Basically I was making a shameless plug for the
> Turtle Beach Maui.  I really wish it had a larger user base.
> Theoretically if people would write some MOD code for it, it would
> probably blow the GUS away.

Not knowing any details, what is the Turtle Beach Maui like compared to the
GUS technically? It might be worth asking the Inertia team to include support
in the next version of the Inertia Player.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ
ENGLAND.

Personal Email: [e-mail]
AJF Software Email
        Info: [e-mail]
        Bugs etc: [e-mail]
        Misc: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:11 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1865] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> In message <[e-mail]> you write:
>
> >I don't see how you can say 16bit, 44.1 Khz and Stereo sound is bad!
> >Even things like the AWE-32 can't do much better!
>
> 1) 16 bit: The SB 16 claims 16 bit sampling, however all this really
>    means is that if you dump a sample to one of the in ports it'll
>    create a 16 bit word from it.  It does not mean that all 16 bits
>    are significant or contain any informational value.  In fact, only
>    the 12 highest bits are in any relation to the sample.  The lowest
>    4 are random noise.  This corresponds to an SNR of appr. 72 dB, so
             ^
             ]
Are you definitely sure that this is true with the SB-16 in particular?
I'm not disagreeing, but I would like to be sure.

>    don't get fooled by their marketing department which would like
>    you to believe that the SB 16 has "CD quality".  This is pure BS!

Perhaps I trust people to much! I suppose it makes sense when you
explain it.

>
> 2) 44.1 kHz:  It may sample at that rate, that means you get a new
>    sample every 1/44100 of a second, however, this does not mean
>    ............
>    parameters like total harmonic distortion, linear phase deviation,
>    gain drift, and so on are equally bad.

Well, I can't say that I think my ear would notice any difference anyway,
but I see your point.

>
> 3) stereo:  Well, it may produce stereo, but have you ever thought
>    about interchannel isolation, interchannel gain mismatch, and
>    total differential non-linearity?  'nuff said.

interchannel whatwasthat? differential whatdidyoucallit? :-)

>
> So you see, even if it doens't look like it, it is a bad card for
> wave playback.  I mean, what do you expect?  It is one of the cheapest
> cards, so it can't be one of the best.

Perhaps it is the cheapest, but I think you'd get a lot of economists going
with that comment!

>
> >What I was trying to say was that with the price I paid for my SB-16 (or at
> >least, could have paid if I hadn't got it cheap!), I was expecting better
> >MIDI synthesis. I understand about MIDI quality of instruments varying.
>
> If you understand all that, why did you buy such a cheap card?

Because I didn't buy it, I got it as a Christmas present when I recommended
it, knowing my parents couldn't afford anything more!

> Jensi

--
Andrew J Ferrier

Contact Me At:
==============
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ
ENGLAND.

Personal Email: [e-mail]
AJF Software Email
        Info: [e-mail]
        Bugs etc: [e-mail]
        Misc: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 08:04 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1884] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:

> Does Turtle Beach Maui have something similar to the GF1, or does it rely
> on the MIDI hardware to do mixing?  (Just Curious)

I am not too familiar with what the GF1 does exactly, but I would assume
that what it was doing would be what the MIDI hardware does.  After all,
wouldn't you consider the entire Maui card to be MIDI hardware?


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:36 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1870] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Wed, 8 Mar 95 13:20 EET,
Jens Puchert  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>>If you read what I said, I said that MODs run on any hardware (not WELL). I

YOU ARE TOTALLY CLUELESS!  YOU LIAR, here is a quote directally from your
message:

>A brilliant point. Why are MIDIs even being used on PCs? MODs were designed
>for PCs because they run well on any hardware, not 200 pound

Here it is again in case you missed it like you did for my question about
a.b.s.mods:

>A brilliant point. Why are MIDIs even being used on PCs? MODs were designed
>for PCs because they run well on any hardware, not 200 pound

FEH!

>Oh, you didn't say that, huh?  Not only are you extremely clueless and
>mentally disturbed, now you also resort to lying to make your worthless
>points.  Before you keep arguing about what you said and what you didn't
>say, I'd like to quote your own words so everybody can decide for themselves
>whether you said that they run "well" or not:

I thought I'd back you up here Jensi, I want this guy off the list and I
want him off now...

Or smarten up Andrew!

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 09:19 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1886] Re: Inertia Player v2.+

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, DAVE MCCARTER wrote:

> 1.   Read in MIDI files and play them back.  However, as MIDI
>      files are capable of having an instrument play a chord of
>      multiple notes, MODs are not.  Here's where my idea comes
>      in.  At initial load of the MIDI file check for any chord
>      that occurs.  If one is found then take whichever instrument
>      should be used and pre-mix a single sample for that specific
>      chord.  Then, store that chord in memory and use it whenever
>      the chord occurs.  This could also be used for several
>      different chords, provided they were basically the same
>      except translated up or down the clef.  This would take more
>      memory than traditional, but would sound really impressive.
>      With this one could easily simulate what would have required
>      a multitude of tracks with MODs on a single channel.
>      Whatcha think?

Dunno.  I guess you could just allocate more channels to compensate for a
chrod also, right?

> 2.   Have a option to output the audio, rather than to the audio
>      card, but to a WAV or VOC on the hard drive.  Then Inertia
>      Player could take it's own sweet time and output the file as
>      it should sound.  With full stereo panning, 44.1 Khz,
>      stereo, 256x oversampling, full Fourier emphasis, reverb(?),
>      and the such.  I think this would be very feasible and
>      useful.

THAT would be great.  Jensi?  You hearing this?  Mod4Windows would really
be improved with this addition.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 08:51 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1885] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, DAVE MCCARTER wrote:

> Does anyone know how much a Roland Sound Canvas goes for?  This may not
> be the place to discuss this, and I'll leave it at this if anyone has any
> problems with the message.

I believe the SCC1 goes for about $275


-----------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:10 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1864] RE: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Hi,
>       Instead of useing LoadHigh (or whatever, I don't use this) in your
> autoexec.bat, give installhigh = xxxx in your config.sys.  You must have
> most of these last in the config.sys, though I have smartdrv first.  I have
> managed to get 630 K free in base memory.  Also try Memmaker (if you have
> dos 6.0, also the above example is for ms-dos v6 as well.)  But beware
> with Memmaker, It screwed windows royally once to me.  Not that I _really_
> care but I wanted to play LodeRunner :)

This is a good hint but I just thought I'd warn everyone that although it
consumes less memory, there are a few things DOS doesn't provide the program
with that it may need, so it could possibly crash - although of course it's
still worth trying.

TTFN,
Andrew Ferrier

Personal Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 09:21 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1887] OFF TOPIC! Turtle Beach stuff

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> > > Unfortunatly, Turtle Beach has always been hush hush about their DSP
> > > code. People have been trying to find out how to program for the
> > > Multisound Classic for over 4 years (before if became a classic :-)
> > > without any luck.
> >
> > Well, I don't know about before, but I recently found a whole bunch of
> > FAQ's from Brandon Higa's FTP site for the Maui.  It had stuff about
> > SYSEX commands, the WaveFront Gatekeeper, and even some source code.
>
> SYSEX commands are pretty general and don't tell you how to talk to the
> card at the register level. I'm not familiar with the WaveFront
> Gatekeeper. I'm not a programmer. I do know, however that you need basic
> info (real low level) to talk to a DSP/sound card. Do you know if any of
> the info there is adequate to write specific code native to the Maui?

I am a programmer, albeit a beginner.  I really do not know how to
program a Sound Board.  I was assuming you could program a Maui by just
sending SYSEX commands to the MPU-401 @ whatever port you had it set to.
If anyone knows anything, PLEASE correct me if I am wrong.  (Jensi?)

> I hope so but I doubt it. One guy posted a message to the sysop of the TB
> BBS asking about OS/2 drivers for the Multisound. The answer was a
> resounding no. The answer was that they support Windows (now and in the
> future) because it is on 50 million desktops while OS/2 is only on 5
> million. When asked at least for programming info so that others may take
> a stab at it. The answer was deafening silence.

As a user of DOS/Windows and a strong supporter of OS/2(even though I
don't use it), I sort of see why they make that decision too.  My best
guess is that they haven't ironed out NT/Win95 drivers, which are
probably a bigger selling point in today's marketplace.  They are
understaffed as you said.  Once again.  Not an excuse, but a reasonable
explanation.

[LARGE CUT TEXT]

> The frequency response was severely rolled off below about 200 Hz. I went
> through the board and found that they had done some last minute cost
> reductions and eliminated several buffer chips and replaced some of the
> coupling caps with way undersized ones. I replaced the caps (some 10 or so
> of them ) with larger ones. The Bass came right up. I called TB and tried
> to tell them of the deficiencies with the hardware and software.  The
> support techs were nice enough but really had no interest in making use of
> my help. Again, if you go to the TB BBS you will see complaints about the
> things that I found.

I think I can safely speak for everyone else by saying, WHAT?  Whatever
you did, if I can improve my SB16 by doing the same thing, please fill me
in?  What in the hell are you talking about, and how do you do it?

> I wish you would clue me in. They stopped making the Multisound Classic,
> the best darn Windows sound card ever created by man and replaced it with
> the Monterey.  The Monterey compared to a Multisound is like comparing an
> Audi to a Mercedes. Not even in the same class.

I dunno about that one.  I assume the point was to try and create a line
of products that are more interchangable.  ex.  Buy Rio now, Tahiti
later, and then have a Monterey.  But I can't say anything else.  I know
nothing about the Multisound, other than it's legendary performance and
how its name is spoken in a hushed volume in small circles.  Best idea I
can come up with is that they wanted to add RAM, but that contradicts
itself, when you factor in the speed factor.  All I know is it doesn't
make sense from a quality point of view.

> The people at TB ar good people who try to be helpful. But they are
> overloaded and are suffering from fundamentally poor business and
> marketing decisions.

I totally agree.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 10:23 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1889] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 04:24 EET
> From: Jens Puchert <[e-mail]>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1879] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....
>
> In message <[e-mail]> you w
> rite:
>
> >
> >On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
> >>
> >> > I would like to personally thank the person who first brought up the
> >> > Midas Module player in this conferance.
> >>
> >> No problem.  I only wish I could reap the benefits of it myself.  I only
> >> have an SB16.  If you could, do me a HUGE favor and write to the author
> >> and request he make a version for the Turtle Beach Maui.  In his docs, he
> >> mentioned a Maui version, and an AWE-32 version might be in the making,
> >> but he made no definite statement.  I would really appreciate it if you
> >> guys could help me accomplish this.  Other wise I might get stuck making
> >> my own module player, which I might plan on doing anyway, but it may take
> >> me about 5 years.
> >>
> >
> >Does Turtle Beach Maui have something similar to the GF1, or does it rely
> >on the MIDI hardware to do mixing?  (Just Curious)
>
> The GF1    is a wavetable synthesizer chip and the Maui uses a wavetable
> synthesizer chip (WaveFront).  What's the big difference?  Conceptually
> at least there is none.
>
>
The AWE32 also has a wavetable chip, but I have never seen software that
uses it for .mod type files.  The conceptual difference is whether this
chip is actually used for mixing the .mod type files.  (also does the
Maui have compatibility programs like MEGA-EM and SBOS?

[e-mail]
"Programmers get overlaid!"


-----------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 10:41 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1890] Re: Inertia Player v2.+


> From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
>
> Hi,
> I have just had some ideas for the next version of Inertia Play,
> though is this the place to post them?  If anyone knows of a
> better address then tell me.  Anyways, here goes. . .
>
> 1.   Read in MIDI files and play them back.  However, as MIDI
>      files are capable of having an instrument play a chord of
>      multiple notes, MODs are not.  Here's where my idea comes

dadat dadat dad....

>      With this one could easily simulate what would have required
>      a multitude of tracks with MODs on a single channel.
>      Whatcha think?
> 2.   Have a option to output the audio, rather than to the audio
>      card, but to a WAV or VOC on the hard drive.  Then Inertia

Most Wavetable soundcards only handle 32 notes at a time, and most FM
sound cards only handle 20.  s3m's can handle the same amount.  Now,
rather than having several tracks for each channel, we could have each
event cycle through the channels, so when a new note is to be played, it
goes to either the first free .mod track, or to the one that has been
playing its note the longest.

These Ideas are great (The wave is nice too, but we need the option to
decrease its depth so, say 22kHz for those of use who have closet sized
420MB Hard drives)

A few Ideas I've been toying with are with the user interface.  I would
like to see a way to queue songs up while the module is playing and a
some way of skipping to the next song in the queue with one keystroke.  A
way to delete the current .mod and to view the list file w/o shelling out
to DOS would also be nice.

[e-mail]
"Programmers get overlaid!"


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:21 EET
From: [e-mail] (Alex Gen)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1913] Inertia Player v2.+


 > Hi,
 > I have just had some ideas for the next version of
 > Inertia Play,
 > though is this the place to post them?  If anyone
 > knows of a
 > better address then tell me.  Anyways, here goes. . .

Great Idea...

        Alex..


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:22 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1914] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> writes:
>> In message <[e-mail]> you write:
>>
>> >I don't see how you can say 16bit, 44.1 Khz and Stereo sound is bad!
>> >Even things like the AWE-32 can't do much better!
>>
>> 1) 16 bit: The SB 16 claims 16 bit sampling, however all this really
>>    means is that if you dump a sample to one of the in ports it'll
>>    create a 16 bit word from it.  It does not mean that all 16 bits
>>    are significant or contain any informational value.  In fact, only
>>    the 12 highest bits are in any relation to the sample.  The lowest
>>    4 are random noise.  This corresponds to an SNR of appr. 72 dB, so
>             ^
>             ]
>Are you definitely sure that this is true with the SB-16 in particular?
>I'm not disagreeing, but I would like to be sure.

The card gets typically 72 dB SNR in reviews, and that implies that the
lowest 4 bits are random noise (6 dB SNR for every bit of signal).  A
"true" 16 bit card would have to have an SNR of 96 dB, but that's only
theory.  The closest you can get is the TB Tahiti and the AudioTrix Pro
with around 88-92 dB SNR (15 significant bits).

>>    don't get fooled by their marketing department which would like
>>    you to believe that the SB 16 has "CD quality".  This is pure BS!
>
>Perhaps I trust people to much! I suppose it makes sense when you
>explain it.

Thank you for your late agreement.

>> 2) 44.1 kHz:  It may sample at that rate, that means you get a new
>>    sample every 1/44100 of a second, however, this does not mean
>>    ............
>>    parameters like total harmonic distortion, linear phase deviation,
>>    gain drift, and so on are equally bad.
>
>Well, I can't say that I think my ear would notice any difference anyway,
>but I see your point.

Everybody can hear harmonic distortion and total dynamic range (if you
have it hooked up to a decent stereo anyways).  The other things are
of rather technical nature, however they tell you a lot about the quality
of the card.

>> 3) stereo:  Well, it may produce stereo, but have you ever thought
>>    about interchannel isolation, interchannel gain mismatch, and
>>    total differential non-linearity?  'nuff said.
>
>interchannel whatwasthat? differential whatdidyoucallit? :-)

Simple explanation:  If you input identical signals at the left and right,
you will get slightly different signals at the output.  And, if you input
completely different signals left and right, you will find traces of the
other input in each output.

>> So you see, even if it doens't look like it, it is a bad card for
>> wave playback.  I mean, what do you expect?  It is one of the cheapest
>> cards, so it can't be one of the best.
>
>Perhaps it is the cheapest, but I think you'd get a lot of economists going
>with that comment!

Well, in the soundcard market this seems to be pretty close to the truth.

>> >What I was trying to say was that with the price I paid for my SB-16 (or at
>> >least, could have paid if I hadn't got it cheap!), I was expecting better
>> >MIDI synthesis. I understand about MIDI quality of instruments varying.
>>
>> If you understand all that, why did you buy such a cheap card?
>
>Because I didn't buy it, I got it as a Christmas present when I recommended
>it, knowing my parents couldn't afford anything more!

Bummer.

>--
>Andrew J Ferrier

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:10 EET
From: niels van der beek <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1905] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!

The upgrade is 910Kb ,
The drivers are not in the config.sys anymore
And everything works perfect

Niels


On Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:03 EET Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:03 EET
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1860] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
>
> In message <Pine.SOL.3.90.950308105924.16857A-100000@oberon>
[e-mail] writes:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Schitzo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > it does??? i've removed BOTH tsr's from my config.sys and my sb16 works
> > > > perfectly fine.  i've been wondering what those stupid tsr's are for but
> > > > since my card seems to work without it i've never bothered to find out.
> > > > but then again i mainly use my GUS and the sb16 as a backup.
> > > >
> > >
> > > These TSRs are needed to run the DOS mixer and the midi and wave DOS
> > > utilities that come with the SB-16. If you get the latest drivers from CL,
> > > you get a new DOS mixer that doesn't need them. The latest drivers are at
> > > ftp.creaf.com. Look for SB16UP.EXE for the SB-16 and AWEUP.EXE for the
> > > AWE-32. These are self extracting zip files.
> >
> > hmmm ... the mixer.exe that comes with my sb16 also works perfectly fine
> > without those tsr's.  also play (or whatever it is called) also works to
> > play midi files without those tsr's ... i guess i don't need those tsr's
> > then.  but i'll go and pick up that update anyway just in case.
>
> This info. is certainly interesting. I have to admit I've never tried removing
> both the drivers, because I assumed the low-level one was necessary. Does
> Windows 3.1 need either driver, providing you have the Windows drivers
> installed? How big are these updates?
> I think, by the way, when you say also play, you mean the
> DOS PLAY program that comes with the SB-16. Maybe. :-)
> --
> Andrew J Ferrier
>
> Contact Me At:
> ==============
> 32 Wharfenden Way,
> Frimley Green,
> Camberley,
> Surrey,
> GU16 6PJ
> ENGLAND.
>
> Personal Email: [e-mail]
> AJF Software Email
>         Info: [e-mail]
>         Bugs etc: [e-mail]
>         Misc: [e-mail]





-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 09:36 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1925] Re: MIDI? Why?

>Or smarten up Andrew!

How old are you anyway Ferrier? Your folks gave you the sb-16 for Christmas?
You're still living with your parents then? Does daddy like it when you say
dumb things on the net? ;-)

Joost.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 09:31 EET
From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1920] Re: Inertia Player v2.+

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Hi,
> I have just had some ideas for the next version of Inertia Play,
> though is this the place to post them?  If anyone knows of a
> better address then tell me.  Anyways, here goes. . .

This seems the ideal place (apart from, perhaps, the author). It's about
time we talking about IPlay! :-)

>
> 1.   Read in MIDI files and play them back.  However, as MIDI
>      files are capable of having an instrument play a chord of
>      ...........
>      a multitude of tracks with MODs on a single channel.
>      Whatcha think?

Good idea, although I already have seen and indeed have a copy of a MIDI-2-MOD
file converter. However, having it built into IPlay would be very useful.

> 2.   Have a option to output the audio, rather than to the audio
>      card, but to a WAV or VOC on the hard drive.  Then Inertia
>      Player could take it's own sweet time and output the file as
>      it should sound.  With full stereo panning, 44.1 Khz,
>      stereo, 256x oversampling, full Fourier emphasis, reverb(?),
>      and the such.  I think this would be very feasible and
>      useful.

Good idea, but what's the point? Including a run-time copy of IPlay and the
MOD file would take up less disk space. It could be useful for those without
fast computers, like me, but I'm not sure that you quite know how much disk
space a WAV file takes up. It's about 10MB a minute at 44KHz, 16bit, stereo.
That's a lot of disk space! :-)

> Well, there you go.  What do you think?  Did it make sense? (It's
> late and I'm falling asleep :)

It did make sense. Don't got to sleep before you disconnect or you will watch
that phonebill rise and rise!

> ______________________________________________________________
> Jamie McCarter                  [e-mail]
> "Live Long and Render"
>
> Winner of `February Internation PoV Competition' with my image,
> "JMWarmUp.Jpg", at ftp.povray.org/pub/competition/past_winners.
>
> Questions, comments and constructive flames welcome.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

TTFN,
Andrew Ferrier

Personal Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 09:32 EET
From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1921] Mis-use of list

I would like to make a plea. Please, no more slagging off each other. I am
guilty of it too, but we are here to discuss IPlay, soundcards etc., not to
make personal comments about someone we hardly know but from a few lines
of text. Please don't send any replies to this message. It's very short
and simple.

TTFN,
Andrew Ferrier

Personal Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 00:55 EET
From: niels van der beek <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1892] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!




On Wed, 8 Mar 95 20:05 EET niels wrote:

> From: niels <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 20:05 EET
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1852] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
>
> Rot toch op zeikstraal!
> On Tue, 7 Mar 95 17:48 EET [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > From: [e-mail]> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 95 17:48 EET
> > Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1786] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!
> > To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
> >
> > >I have a sb16 and I think it uses alot memory (config.sys:ctsb16/ctmm etc...)
> > >Also I have a cd-rom wich uses another 56kb conventional memory
> > >My mouse driver also uses 17kb memory
> > >together with dos..Not much memory is left
> > >I already load as much high as I can !
> > >Are there any lines from the config.sys and autoexec.bat that are not
> > important at
> > >all??!!
> > >
> > >This discription is a little vague but maybe out here on the internet there is
> > >someone who can help me.........
> > >
> > >Niels van der Beek
> > >[e-mail]
> >
> > Now why the hell are you asking this on INERTIA-TALK ?
> > There's more to the net than just this list you know! :)
> >
> > Joost.
>
> Asswhipe




-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 09:26 EET
From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1916] Re: Location of Latest Inertia

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Now that we have that taken care of, can anybody tell me WHERE the
> latest version of IPLAY is?

It may be 1.20, so look at the filename first, but I think:

hornet.eng.efl.edu
/demos/music/programs/players?
I'm not sure of the filename. Sorry.

TTFN,
Andrew Ferrier

Personal Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 00:57 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1894] Re: OFF TOPIC! Turtle Beach stuff

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950309010444.17223I-100000-100000@[141.211.7.107]> yo
u write:

>On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:
>
>> > > Unfortunatly, Turtle Beach has always been hush hush about their DSP
>> > > code. People have been trying to find out how to program for the
>> > > Multisound Classic for over 4 years (before if became a classic :-)
>> > > without any luck.
>> >
>> > Well, I don't know about before, but I recently found a whole bunch of
>> > FAQ's from Brandon Higa's FTP site for the Maui.  It had stuff about
>> > SYSEX commands, the WaveFront Gatekeeper, and even some source code.
>>
>> SYSEX commands are pretty general and don't tell you how to talk to the
>> card at the register level. I'm not familiar with the WaveFront
>> Gatekeeper. I'm not a programmer. I do know, however that you need basic
>> info (real low level) to talk to a DSP/sound card. Do you know if any of
>> the info there is adequate to write specific code native to the Maui?
>
>I am a programmer, albeit a beginner.  I really do not know how to
>program a Sound Board.  I was assuming you could program a Maui by just
>sending SYSEX commands to the MPU-401 @ whatever port you had it set to.
>If anyone knows anything, PLEASE correct me if I am wrong.  (Jensi?)

What you say is true for cards that are solely accessed through their
MPU-401, such as daughterboards like the Rio.  The Maui however must also
be accessible at register level, preventing the (slow) MPU-401 interface.
The Maui can load samples much faster than the RIO, so it uses direct access
of some sort to accomplish that.  You can program the Maui through SYSEX
commands, but to do something non-MIDI, like a MOD player, you'd need direct
h/w access.

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 00:56 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1893] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> writes:
>> Then what for Christ's sake is the average?
>
>About an SBPro. Among the people I know anyway.

Are you gonna tell me next the average computer is a 286, the average video
card is EGA, and the average HD size is 40 MB?  (SB Pro... ;-)

>> Where do you live?  SB2 is not even sold here anymore.
>
>England. Where's here? The Internet's worldwide, remember?

Oh really?  I thought it's only Syracuse and surrounding area.  Can't you
Brits have your own net?  (Just kidding, ok?)

>--
>Andrew J Ferrier

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 00:59 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1896] Re: Inertia Player v2.+

Hi,
    The first idea I had in order to _reduce_ the number of channels.
With less channels it could go faster.  And, besides, I have a midi song
that has 8 tracks, with chords.  This would be possible to play as a MOD,
however as soon as the chords come into the MOD the number of tracks jumps
sky high, slowing down the program.

______________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                  [e-mail]
"Live Long and Render"

Winner of `February Internation PoV Competition' with my image,
"JMWarmUp.Jpg", at ftp.povray.org/pub/competition/past_winners.

Questions, comments and constructive flames welcome.
---------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 00:58 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1895] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

In message <[e-mail]> you w
rite:

>On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:
>
>> In message <[e-mail]>
>> you write:
>>
>> >On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I would like to personally thank the person who first brought up the
>> >> > Midas Module player in this conferance.
>> >>
>> >> No problem.  I only wish I could reap the benefits of it myself.  I only
>> >> have an SB16.  If you could, do me a HUGE favor and write to the author
>> >> and request he make a version for the Turtle Beach Maui.  In his docs, he
>> >> mentioned a Maui version, and an AWE-32 version might be in the making,
>> >> but he made no definite statement.  I would really appreciate it if you
>> >> guys could help me accomplish this.  Other wise I might get stuck making
>> >> my own module player, which I might plan on doing anyway, but it may take
>> >> me about 5 years.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Does Turtle Beach Maui have something similar to the GF1, or does it rely
>> >on the MIDI hardware to do mixing?  (Just Curious)
>>
>> The GF1    is a wavetable synthesizer chip and the Maui uses a wavetable
>> synthesizer chip (WaveFront).  What's the big difference?  Conceptually
>> at least there is none.
>>
>>
>The AWE32 also has a wavetable chip, but I have never seen software that
>uses it for .mod type files.  The conceptual difference is whether this
>chip is actually used for mixing the .mod type files.

That's not a difference in concept but in practical use for a particular task.
Of course any of those chips could mix MOD type music.  Whether any programs
exist that do that is hardly conceptual.

>(also does the Maui have compatibility programs like MEGA-EM and SBOS?

It has an industry standard hardware MPU-401 interface, so it doesn't need
any emulators.

>[e-mail]
>"Programmers get overlaid!"

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:00 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1897] Re: Inertia Player v2.+

Hi,
    There is as of yet no new version of Inertia Player, those were
suggestions that I have for the next version.  Sorry, I thought I made
that clear.

______________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                  [e-mail]
"Live Long and Render"

Winner of `February Internation PoV Competition' with my image,
"JMWarmUp.Jpg", at ftp.povray.org/pub/competition/past_winners.

Questions, comments and constructive flames welcome.
---------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 00:54 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1891] Re: Inertia Player v2.+

In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950309011724.17223K-100000@[141.211.7.107]> you write
:

>On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, DAVE MCCARTER wrote:
>
>> 2.   Have a option to output the audio, rather than to the audio
>>      card, but to a WAV or VOC on the hard drive.  Then Inertia
>>      Player could take it's own sweet time and output the file as
>>      it should sound.  With full stereo panning, 44.1 Khz,
>>      stereo, 256x oversampling, full Fourier emphasis, reverb(?),
>>      and the such.  I think this would be very feasible and
>>      useful.
>
>THAT would be great.  Jensi?  You hearing this?  Mod4Windows would really
>be improved with this addition.

Everybody seems to want that lately ;-)  We'll see...

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:03 EET
From: Schitzo <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1899] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!



On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> > > hmmm ... the mixer.exe that comes with my sb16 also works perfectly fine
> > > without those tsr's.  also play (or whatever it is called) also works to
> > > play midi files without those tsr's ... i guess i don't need those tsr's
> > > then.  but i'll go and pick up that update anyway just in case.
> >
> > This info. is certainly interesting. I have to admit I've never tried removing
> > both the drivers, because I assumed the low-level one was necessary. Does
> > Windows 3.1 need either driver, providing you have the Windows drivers
> > installed? How big are these updates?
> > I think, by the way, when you say also play, you mean the
> > DOS PLAY program that comes with the SB-16. Maybe. :-)
>
> Windows does not need them at all. And you are right, I did mean the play
> progs that come with the SB-16. I think SB16UP.EXE is around 700K. It is
> kinda slick. It goes and IDs your particular flavor of SB-16 and
> automatically replaces both the DOS and Windows stuff with the appropriate
> files/drivers.

uhmm excuse me?  i believe I was the one that made the reference to
"play" program.  and yes, I was refering to the DOS util that comes with the
sb16.  getting a little confused aren't we? :)  you did mean to say "And
you are right, HE (as in me) did mean the play blah blah etc .."? hehehe
don'tcha just love all these quotes and re-quotes of multiple messages.

SoooOOooOOoooo ... has anyone ACTUALLY figure out what those damn drivers
are for besides hoggin up base memory???


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:01 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1898] Re: Turtle Beach stuff



On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> I am a programmer, albeit a beginner.  I really do not know how to
> program a Sound Board.  I was assuming you could program a Maui by just
> sending SYSEX commands to the MPU-401 @ whatever port you had it set to.
> If anyone knows anything, PLEASE correct me if I am wrong.  (Jensi?)

I think you are right but this is not the same as talking to a DSP at the
native hardware level, outputing data and manipulating it. I'm talking
about the stuff that Inertia-Player has to do when playing a mod on your
sound card (There, we are now talking about Inertia again :-)

> [LARGE CUT TEXT]
>
> > The frequency response was severely rolled off below about 200 Hz. I went
> > through the board and found that they had done some last minute cost
> > reductions and eliminated several buffer chips and replaced some of the
> > coupling caps with way undersized ones. I replaced the caps (some 10 or so
> > of them ) with larger ones. The Bass came right up. I called TB and tried
> > to tell them of the deficiencies with the hardware and software.  The
> > support techs were nice enough but really had no interest in making use of
> > my help. Again, if you go to the TB BBS you will see complaints about the
> > things that I found.
>
> I think I can safely speak for everyone else by saying, WHAT?  Whatever
> you did, if I can improve my SB16 by doing the same thing, please fill me
> in?  What in the hell are you talking about, and how do you do it?

Sorry 'bout that :-). What I basically did is to correct some design
problems with the analog audio processing circuitry. These problems don't
exist in the SB-16.

>
> > I wish you would clue me in. They stopped making the Multisound Classic,
> > the best darn Windows sound card ever created by man and replaced it with
> > the Monterey.  The Monterey compared to a Multisound is like comparing an
> > Audi to a Mercedes. Not even in the same class.
>
> I dunno about that one.  I assume the point was to try and create a line
> of products that are more interchangable.  ex.  Buy Rio now, Tahiti
> later, and then have a Monterey.  But I can't say anything else.  I know
> nothing about the Multisound, other than it's legendary performance and
> how its name is spoken in a hushed volume in small circles.  Best idea I
> can come up with is that they wanted to add RAM, but that contradicts
> itself, when you factor in the speed factor.  All I know is it doesn't
> make sense from a quality point of view.
>

I have a Multisound and it deserves it's legendary reputation. It is IMO
the best midi wavetable soundcard for Windows ever made. It is the only
card that I know of that does not use *any* DMA channel. It has a port
address and one IRQ.

The digital section has phenominal specs:

89db S/N A-weighted, frequency response  DC to 19kHz +/- .5 dB, Motorolla
56001 DSP (20 MIPS), distortion <.01% A-weighted, 24 bit internal data
path, etc.

> > The people at TB are good people who try to be helpful. But they are
> > overloaded and are suffering from fundamentally poor business and
> > marketing decisions.
>
> I totally agree.
>
>
--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:04 EET
From: Schitzo <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1900] Re: MIDI? Why?



On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> I got my Audiotrix pro demo CD yesterday and I must say I wasn't all that
> impressed with the MIDI, sure it sounded nice, but only marginally better
> than my GUS.  I like my MOD collection way better than my MIDI collection
> anyways.

hey where'd ya get your demo cd from???  i wouldn't mind getting one
myself if it doesn't cost anything.  i wanna hear how an ATP sounds like
cuz i've never seen one for sale here (let alone advertised).


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:05 EET
From: Andy Steere <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1901] Netiquette

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Mar 95 13:20 EET,
> Jens Puchert  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >>If you read what I said, I said that MODs run on any hardware (not WELL).
>
> YOU ARE TOTALLY CLUELESS!  YOU LIAR, here is a quote directally from your

Chris, be VERY careful about what you quote and to whom you attribute it.
I thought you were talking about Jensi until the very end of your message.
Yes, I see the double >>, but Jensi didn't write that line and he should
not have been referenced there.


On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
[snip]

Mr Ferrier, a bit of friendly advice... you can have any opinions you want
and you are free to express them (the only damage you can do is to your
own reputation), but PLEASE try to follow these "rules" of net-etiquette:

   1.  Don't quote more lines than you intend to write yourself.
   2.  Your .sig shouldn't be longer than the content of your post.
   3.  Minimize the number of similar messages you post in one day.
   4.  Stay on topic.  (in other words: "IPLAY RULEZ!" ;-)

A good example was message #1865.  You quoted 35 lines, your .sig is 17
lines long, but you only contributed 8 lines of text.  A large number of
your posts have been even worse.  You also don't need to post six messages
replying to six different people about the same topic, when one message to
the whole list will do.

Please take this advice in the friendly spirit in which it is offered.

:-)

Andy Steere
[e-mail]





-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:06 EET
From: niels <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1902] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!


Thank you for all the answers on mys memory loss question/problem, I have
downloaded de upgrade and removed the drivers now I have 609kb free and cd-rom
loaded!! in high memory!

Niels

On Wed, 8 Mar 95 18:07 EET Schitzo wrote:

> From: Schitzo <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 18:07 EET
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1848] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Schitzo wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
> > >
> > > > 2. The SB-16 loads two config.sys drivers. One (the low-level) is necessary,
> > > > but what is the multimedia one for?
> > >
> > > it does??? i've removed BOTH tsr's from my config.sys and my sb16 works
> > > perfectly fine.  i've been wondering what those stupid tsr's are for but
> > > since my card seems to work without it i've never bothered to find out.
> > > but then again i mainly use my GUS and the sb16 as a backup.
> > >
> >
> > These TSRs are needed to run the DOS mixer and the midi and wave DOS
> > utilities that come with the SB-16. If you get the latest drivers from CL,
> > you get a new DOS mixer that doesn't need them. The latest drivers are at
> > ftp.creaf.com. Look for SB16UP.EXE for the SB-16 and AWEUP.EXE for the
> > AWE-32. These are self extracting zip files.
>
> hmmm ... the mixer.exe that comes with my sb16 also works perfectly fine
> without those tsr's.  also play (or whatever it is called) also works to
> play midi files without those tsr's ... i guess i don't need those tsr's
> then.  but i'll go and pick up that update anyway just in case.




-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:08 EET
From: Schitzo <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1903] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!



On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
> Problem :
>   I'm going to university right now, and therefore, I have no money
> left.  I can't even afford to buy a single speed CD, let alone thinking
> about a second sond card and a mixer so I can hook it to my speakers with
> the GUS-MAX.  Right now, the only advantages to gettting both is better
> software support and nice playing of Digial Sound effects... and I'm
> notnotnotnotnotnotnot going to sell my GUS for that.
>
> Now if I could afford a Roland Sound Canvas...

well the dream gets LARGER and LARGER! :)  first he wants an sb16, now
it's up'd to a sound canvas! hehehe.  you still should be content with
your MAX. most things out now have native GUS support (try finding that
only about a year ago).  trust me, i've found i have not too much use for
the sb16 now that i've got it.  that's why i'm contemplating the trade
for a sbpro plus some cash! :)


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:15 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1908] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> Not knowing any details, what is the Turtle Beach Maui like compared to the
> GUS technically? It might be worth asking the Inertia team to include support
> in the next version of the Inertia Player.

The Maui has no digital Audio output.  Only General MIDI, or whatever you
want to remap it to.  As far as specs, I am guessing that it's SNR is
better than the GUS, because it seems to be crystal clear, but I have
never heard a GUS, so I wouldn't know first hand.  The MIDI works
basically the same way.  I have asked some people to possibly include
support for it, but I don't think it is going to happen, since I am
probably the only one trying to prod then.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:13 EET
From: Thomas Wilkinson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1907] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:06 EET
> From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1862] Re: MIDI? Why?
>
> In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.950307135630.13671I-100000@[141.211.7.73]> [e-mail] writes:
> > The SB16 DOES NOT PLAY SAMPLES!  Unless you are using Cubic Player, there
> > are no samples involved!  Get it through your thick skull.  And for the
> > last time, MIDI was not designed just for the base-bones computer with a
> > soundcard people.  It was designed for everyone, professional musicians
> > included.
>
> Obviously I don't understand. How does the SB family play MIDI if it doesn't
> store samples anywhere? (RAM, ROM, Hard Disk etc.) By the way, by samples I
> meant the actual sound, not the specific conotations that sample obviously
> has. :-)
>

Any instrument's sound can be approximated as a set of sine waves, that
(with the exception of percussion) are integral multiples of the lowest
sine wave (the fundamental).  So we could have a, say, oboe play the
fundamental (the pitch we hear as being the note the oboe is playing) and
the oboe's tone is augmented by a series of harmonics.  That means any
woodwind, brass, or string's waveform can be approximated with the formula

  a1*sin(t) + a2*sin(t*2) + a3*sin(t*3) + a4*sin(t*4) + ... + an*sin(t*n)

I know it sounds rather technical, but this is two months of Physics 137
(first year university physics) wrapped up in eight lines of text, but
what this all means is that an FM soundcard can approximate a waveform by
only storing the a1, a2, ... , an coefficients at a few points in the
sample, and the quality of the sample is determined by wat they choose n
to be.  These approximations of the waveform make it much easier to store
on the soundcard and much simpler to process the mixing.

[e-mail]
"I should have joined a physics conferance!"


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:12 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1906] Re: MIDI? Why?


On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> Obviously I don't understand. How does the SB family play MIDI if it doesn't
> store samples anywhere? (RAM, ROM, Hard Disk etc.) By the way, by samples I
> meant the actual sound, not the specific conotations that sample obviously
> has. :-)

    All of the soundblasters, before the AWE 32 had basically two
parts.  There is a DAC, which plays ONE channel digital audio (two on the
pro and up. (stereo)) It is what you hear when you're playing a WAV, or
when your processor is doing tonnes of mixing and cramming a four, eight,
sixteen or whatever channel mod through that one channel.

    The other part is an FM synthesizer chip, the OPL2 (or, on the
pro and up, OPL3).  It synthesizes musical instruments mathematically, by
performing three mathematical operations on a sine wave.  In principle,
this should be a decent synthesis method, and certainly is much cheaper
in terms of disk space, but with only three operations, little accuracy
can be obtained.  (Some of the more complex sounding instruments (such as
a cello) can have as many as twelve distinct frequency components.)
Anyway, MOST SB music playing software (from games to MIDI players to CMF
players) all utilize this FM synthesis chip, because the SB was not built
for playing more than one sample at a time.  (Think of modplayers as
software patches to hardware deficiencies.)

    Sure, there are a couple of other less important pieces to the SB
& family, such as an ADC (recording sound), the ASP chip (digitally
manipulating the digital output) and a couple of other bits, but other
than these, the main difference between the SB, the SB pro, and the SB 16
is the stereo, and the precision used when playing back.  It's sort of a
quanitative improvement only.   (The specs look better, but the basic
sound, be it improved in "quality" or not sounds the same.)



-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:09 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1904] Re: Sb16/cd-rom memory loss!

>Rot toch op zeikstraal!

Dutch moron.
Get a life. Wanna know about loading stuff hi? Subscribe to the appropiate
newsgroup. Don't bother us with your crap.
This goes for all the other off-topic posters as well. This used to be a
good place 'till Ferrier started wining about mid's on his sb-16.
In two (!!) hours time i received 30 messages SOLELY from inertia-talk.

Joost.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:16 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1909] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Thomas Wilkinson wrote:

> The AWE32 also has a wavetable chip, but I have never seen software that
> uses it for .mod type files.  The conceptual difference is whether this
> chip is actually used for mixing the .mod type files.  (also does the
> Maui have compatibility programs like MEGA-EM and SBOS?

No.  The Maui is a General MIDI card.  It is not a wave device.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:17 EET
From: Marko Domanovic <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1910]

HI 2 all!

Here I have a really BIG problem. I must ask again!

DOES anyone here have any idea how to load module (.xm .s3m .mod...) in
GUS memory that is smaller than module? I tried to emulate SB with
sbos & maxsbos (i have GUS-Max), and none works with FastTracker 2.03,
Scream Tracker 3.2, Dual Module Player 3.01 or Inertia Play 1.2.
My friend who has SB16, laughs at me because i can't load his modules
that's bigger than 1 Mb. I had SB16 too & I know that's shitty
soundboard comparing to GUS. Soundquality, number of channels, midi...
You know, everything is better on GUS except ONE thing!!!
Help me, I'm very disappointed!!

BTW, what's the last version of FastTracker?

Pyc


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:18 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1911] Re: Cubic Player v0.96

On Thu, 9 Mar 95 00:39 EET,
Jurassic Mark  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>> I saw a post in alt.comp.demos about the newest version of cubic player
>> being out (on Hornet i belive), and I was wondering if anyone on the list
>> has seen it yet, and if So...how is it?
>     Yes, I got it.  It supports ZIP and ARJ (so-so) files!!!  My
>wish has come true!!!

What's alt.comp.demos?


-Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 01:20 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1912] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Wed, 8 Mar 95 07:38 EET,
Thomas Wilkinson  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>resolution down to 11kHz for it to work.  WMIDAS solved all of that for
>me.  It only takes a few k's and it sounds great.  Plus it plays s3m's.

It works great for me!  I'm using StarPlay right now because I'm in DOS,
but I use Midas whenever I'm on the net.  The only problem is sometimes I
get ultraclicks.


-Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 02:59 EET
From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1915]  Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Hello All,
>
> old SB-PRO... I am using several MOD players out there... Can
> someone tell me what the best MOD player is out there for the
> SoundBlaster AWE-32? I hear all of this bickering back and forth
>
> Colin Woods
> Stuart, Florida
> InterNet E-Mail: [e-mail]

Presumably it has a windows driver. You could try MOD4WIN or Midas MCI Module
player, although they may not support all the features. Mail me personally
for more info. Good luck in your search!

TTFN,
Andrew Ferrier

Personal Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 18:58 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1926] Re: Inertia Player v2.+

Hi,
    Well, my idea to convert a MOD to WAV is so that I can clip it into
other applications (unfortunately Windoz).  I have access to video editing
equipment that will only read in WAV files to output along side my video.  They
idea was kinda selfish, but I'm sure other people could find a use for it.

    Where is the Midi-2-Mod proggy.

______________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                  [e-mail]
"Live Long and Render"

Winner of `February Internation PoV Competition' with my image,
"JMWarmUp.Jpg", at ftp.povray.org/pub/competition/past_winners.

Questions, comments and constructive flames welcome.
---------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 09:28 EET
From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1917] Re: ST3.21 Soundcard Support

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Hi,
>       Does Scream Tracker v3.21 support the PAS-16 or SB or is it a gus
> only please program.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Jamie McCarter                  [e-mail]
> "Live Long and Render"
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

What's a please program? (joke)
It supports SB, SBPro, SB16. I don't know about the PAS-16.

TTFN,
Andrew Ferrier

Personal Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 09:29 EET
From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1918] Re: MIDI and Trackers

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Hi,
>       Sorry to go off topic of flaming sound cards and users, but ....
> Does anyone know if there exists a MOD (or such) composer that can read
> in MIDI files to use as the notes?  And where might I find such a program?
> Thanks alot.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Jamie McCarter                  [e-mail]
> "Live Long and Render"
>
> Winner of `February Internation PoV Competition' with my image,
> "JMWarmUp.Jpg", at ftp.povray.org/pub/competition/past_winners.
>
> Questions, comments and constructive flames welcome.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

I have a MIDI-2-MOD file converter. Contact me privately if interested.

TTFN,
Andrew Ferrier

Personal Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 09:30 EET
From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1919] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> >If you read what I said, I said that MODs run on any hardware (not WELL). I
> >even admitted the lack of quality with PC Speaker etc. However, Soundcards
> >that play MODs well are more cheaper (in general) that ones that play MIDI well.
> >Almost every (note the almost, please don't twist my words again) soundcard
> >plays MODs to at least a fair degree of quality.
>
> Oh, you didn't say that, huh?  Not only are you extremely clueless and
> mentally disturbed, now you also resort to lying to make your worthless
> points.  Before you keep arguing about what you said and what you didn't
> say, I'd like to quote your own words so everybody can decide for themselves
> whether you said that they run "well" or not:
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> A brilliant point. Why are MIDIs even being used on PCs? MODs were designed
> for PCs because they run well on any hardware, not 200 pound
> --
> Andrew J Ferrier

Oops. Sorry. Although you have edited out the bit about the PC Speaker. However,
if you claim that I am mentally disturbed, then you are merely showing your
own ignorance. Please don't make stupid comments like that without thinking.

> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Now to your argument that soundcards that play MOD's well are cheaper than
> those that play MIDI well.  This is amazingly true, however, what you fail
> to see is that in order to play MOD's well on a cheap soundcard, you also
> need a powerful CPU to run those computationally expensive sound processing
> algorithms while a MIDI card or MIDI module can be run off a 286 without
> problems.  So face it, there's no free ride in this world.  Either you get
> a decent quality sound card or you have to spend more money to get a faster
> CPU to run the MOD's on "standard" sound h/w.

Who has a 286 these days and uses it for music?
MODs run fine on my 386SX 16MHz.

> >No hard feelings :-)
>
> It's hard, believe me.
>
> >--
> >Andrew J Ferrier
>
> Jensi

TTFN,
Andrew Ferrier

Personal Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 09:33 EET
From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1922] Re: Inertia Player v2.+

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Where did you find that Inertia Player version V2.+ ? I'd like to have
> that too...
>
> ***************************************************************
> * Arsi Rantala            E-mail:[e-mail]           *
> * Keisarinmajantie 4 F 12                                     *
> * 48230  KOTKA            http://www.kotakk.fi/~a92sarra/alku *
> ***************************************************************

I'm confused. Unless I'm wrong, the most up-to-date ver. so far is 1.21

TTFN,
Andrew Ferrier

Personal Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 09:34 EET
From: Andrew Ferrier <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1923] No Subject specified

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 95 23:08 EET,
> Andrew Ferrier  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >> I've been considering joining the group.  How much mail does it get a day
> >> and what is the quality of the posts (song quality etc)
> >Oh Dear! Song quality of the posts? You obviously don't know what these lists
> >are for (or at least how they are used). I will give a non-official version:

Considering 'quailty of the posts' was next to the bit about how much mail it
gets, I was confused. But I see what you mean now, and although my tone may have
sounded sarcastic, it was meant to be jokey. Sorry if I mis-expressed. And
I have removed the 18-line sig. permanently.

>
> --
> Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
>
>
>

TTFN,
Andrew Ferrier

Personal Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 09:35 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1924] Re: S3m and GUS Patches

>I have 3.2. What are the ad/disadvantages of 3.21 and do you know an ftp site
>for it?

Advantages : GUS "Out of memory bug" fixed.
But you have a sb-16 (that's right isn't it) so it's of not much importance
to you.
Maybe they've fixed some bugs, but i thought it was just the GUS error message.

Joost.

(try hornet).
hornet.eng.ufl.edu or ftp.eng.ufl.edu


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 22:30 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1929] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sat, 11 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> > Now to your argument that soundcards that play MOD's well are cheaper than
> > those that play MIDI well.  This is amazingly true, however, what you fail
> > to see is that in order to play MOD's well on a cheap soundcard, you also
> > need a powerful CPU to run those computationally expensive sound processing
> > algorithms while a MIDI card or MIDI module can be run off a 286 without
> > problems.  So face it, there's no free ride in this world.  Either you get
> > a decent quality sound card or you have to spend more money to get a faster
> > CPU to run the MOD's on "standard" sound h/w.
>
> Who has a 286 these days and uses it for music?
> MODs run fine on my 386SX 16MHz.

If you have an SB16 and a 386SX-16, you must not have an ear for music.
I have a 486SX-25 with an SB16 and a Turtle Beach Maui, and I consider my
Module quality to be fairly poor.  I don't know what they would sound
like at 20kHz in mono with no Interpolation, but I know it can't sound
good.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 22:29 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1928] Re: Turtle Beach stuff

On Sat, 11 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> Sorry 'bout that :-). What I basically did is to correct some design
> problems with the analog audio processing circuitry. These problems don't
> exist in the SB-16.

Any chance of doing anything to my SB16 with a soldering iron that would
help?  It is kinda noisy, now that I really think about it.  Nowhere near
as clean as my Maui, even though they are kind of unrelated.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 22:02 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1927] Re: OFF TOPIC! Turtle Beach stuff

On Sat, 11 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> What you say is true for cards that are solely accessed through their
> MPU-401, such as daughterboards like the Rio.  The Maui however must also
> be accessible at register level, preventing the (slow) MPU-401 interface.
> The Maui can load samples much faster than the RIO, so it uses direct access
> of some sort to accomplish that.  You can program the Maui through SYSEX
> commands, but to do something non-MIDI, like a MOD player, you'd need direct
> h/w access.

Well, Turtle Beach also released crap about their gatekeeper patch
loading system or whatever, that I haven't really looked at.  Couldn't
you just use that?


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 22:36 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1930] Re: Inertia Player v2.+

On Sat, 11 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> Good idea, but what's the point? Including a run-time copy of IPlay and the
> MOD file would take up less disk space. It could be useful for those without
> fast computers, like me, but I'm not sure that you quite know how much disk
> space a WAV file takes up. It's about 10MB a minute at 44KHz, 16bit, stereo.
> That's a lot of disk space! :-)

Umm, some people enjoy modules and would like to listen to them without
carrying their computer with them.  Ever hear of DAT, DCC, MiniDisc, or
cassettes?


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 22:52 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1931] filesizes 1.21 virusfree

Volume in drive D is QUANTUM
Volume Serial Number is 1E66-8A20
Directory of D:\FF

                   <DIR>                  03-11-95   7:38a
.                  <DIR>                  03-11-95   7:38a
ISETUP   EXE            7,677 12-20-94    1:21a
IPLAY      EXE        131,894 12-20-94    1:21a
IPDOC    EXE           34,248 12-20-94    1:21a
             5 file(s)                    173,819 bytes
                                      237,838,336 bytes free


(...)
Joost.




-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 23:22 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1932] Re: Turtle Beach stuff


On Sat, 11 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> I have a Multisound and it deserves it's legendary reputation. It is IMO
> the best midi wavetable soundcard for Windows ever made. It is the only
> card that I know of that does not use *any* DMA channel. It has a port
> address and one IRQ.

    No DMA?!  How's it do digitized playback?  Surely, you don't need
to do anything as stupid and backwards as polled IO..

>
> The digital section has phenominal specs:
>
> 89db S/N A-weighted, frequency response  DC to 19kHz +/- .5 dB, Motorolla
> 56001 DSP (20 MIPS), distortion <.01% A-weighted, 24 bit internal data
> path, etc.

    Hmm.  Wish I knew what all of those meant.  (What's A-weighted?)


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 23:45 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1935] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sat, 11 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> > old SB-PRO... I am using several MOD players out there... Can
> > someone tell me what the best MOD player is out there for the
> > SoundBlaster AWE-32? I hear all of this bickering back and forth
>
> Presumably it has a windows driver. You could try MOD4WIN or Midas MCI Module
> player, although they may not support all the features. Mail me personally
> for more info. Good luck in your search!

Perhaps you don't know any better, but why in the hell would you recommend
Midas for someone with an AWE-32.  The code for the Midas Module player is
not very efficient, when it has to mix channels for a Windows Wave
Driver.  Only when combined with a Gravis Ultrasound is Midas Module
Player even worth using.  For now...


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 23:33 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1933] Re: MIDI? Why?



> > Obviously I don't understand. How does the SB family play MIDI if it doesn't
> > store samples anywhere? (RAM, ROM, Hard Disk etc.) By the way, by samples I
> > meant the actual sound, not the specific conotations that sample obviously
> > has. :-)
> >
>
> Any instrument's sound can be approximated as a set of sine waves, that
> (with the exception of percussion) are integral multiples of the lowest
> sine wave (the fundamental).  So we could have a, say, oboe play the
> fundamental (the pitch we hear as being the note the oboe is playing) and
> the oboe's tone is augmented by a series of harmonics.  That means any
> woodwind, brass, or string's waveform can be approximated with the formula
>
>   a1*sin(t) + a2*sin(t*2) + a3*sin(t*3) + a4*sin(t*4) + ... + an*sin(t*n)
>
> I know it sounds rather technical, but this is two months of Physics 137
> (first year university physics) wrapped up in eight lines of text, but
> what this all means is that an FM soundcard can approximate a waveform by
> only storing the a1, a2, ... , an coefficients at a few points in the
> sample, and the quality of the sample is determined by wat they choose n
> to be.  These approximations of the waveform make it much easier to store
> on the soundcard and much simpler to process the mixing.

    You forgot the important part.  This is indeed the theory of FM
synthesis.  Yes, it works, but only if you have enough different terms in
your equation.  While real, honest, absolutely true to reality sound in
this fashion takes an infinite number of frequency components, not quite
that many are needed to generate a noise which can fool the human ear.
Twelve frequency components are enough to represent almost all
instruemnts with a great deal of accuracy.  However, most PC expansion
cards with FM synthesizer chips only are capable of three op FM
synthesis, which really isn't very much.  Thus people hear MIDI and say
it sounds like crap, like "Nintendo music."


-----------------

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 23:44 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1934] Re: Inertia Player v2.+

On Sat, 11 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:
>
> > Good idea, but what's the point? Including a run-time copy of IPlay and the
> > MOD file would take up less disk space. It could be useful for those without
> > fast computers, like me, but I'm not sure that you quite know how much disk
> > space a WAV file takes up. It's about 10MB a minute at 44KHz, 16bit, stereo.
> > That's a lot of disk space! :-)
>
> Umm, some people enjoy modules and would like to listen to them without
> carrying their computer with them.  Ever hear of DAT, DCC, MiniDisc, or
> cassettes?

    Well, I've heard of DAT, I've GOT a MD recorder, but I've never
heard of DCC.  What is it?  (Anyone know how I can get an optical out
from my computer so I can do direct trasnfers onto my MD recorder? :)


-----------------